White Horse Inn Blog

Know what you believe and why you believe it

  • Home
    Home This is where you can find all the blog posts throughout the site.
  • Categories
    Categories Displays a list of categories from this blog.
  • Tags
    Tags Displays a list of tags that have been used in the blog.
  • Bloggers
    Bloggers Search for your favorite blogger from this site.
  • Team Blogs
    Team Blogs Find your favorite team blogs here.
  • Login
    Login Login form

WHI-1073 | Should We Reform or Abandon American Protestantism?

Posted by on in 2011 Show Archive
  • Font size: Larger Smaller
  • Hits: 304
  • 21 Comments
  • Subscribe to this entry
  • Print
Have you grown impatient with your church's seemingly endless quest for being hip and relevant? Have you become weary of "meaningful worship services" that say more about radio dial preferences than biblical fidelity? Are you irritated by the constant flow of shallow, superficial, and even narcissistic books that stock the shelves of evangelical bookstores? On this program, Michael Horton talks about these issues and more with Notre Dame sociologist Christian Smith who describes his conversion to Roman Catholicism in his recent book, How to Go from Being a Good Evangelical to a Committed Catholic in 95 Difficult Steps. Mike also talks with Christian about his other new book, Lost in Transition.

Have you grown impatient with your church's seemingly endless quest for being hip and relevant? Have you become weary of "meaningful worship services" that say more about radio dial preferences than biblical fidelity? Are you irritated by the constant flow of shallow, superficial, and even narcissistic books that stock the shelves of evangelical bookstores? On this program, Michael Horton talks about these issues and more with Notre Dame sociologist Christian Smith who describes his conversion to Roman Catholicism in his recent book, How to Go from Being a Good Evangelical to a Committed Catholic in 95 Difficult Steps. Mike also talks with Christian about his other new book, Lost in Transition.




RELATED ARTICLES



MUSIC SELECTION

Doug Powell
PROGRAM AUDIO

[audio:http://www.whitehorseinn.org/whiarchives/2011whi1073oct30.mp3|titles=WHI 1073|artists=White Horse Inn]


0
Trackback URL for this blog entry.

Overall Rating (0)

0 out of 5 stars

Leave your comments

Post comment as a guest

0
Your comments are subjected to administrator's moderation.
terms and condition.

People in this conversation

Load Previous Comments
  • [...] Protestants and Tridentine Roman Catholics remain intact (as an example, see this helpful dialogue between Michael Horton and Roman Catholic convert Christian Smith).  This doesn’t mean that we [...]

    Like 0 Short URL:
  • Guest - Chris Haven

    I had a lengthy email dialogue once with a guy that I was in seminary with a few years ago at a Reformed seminary who converted to Roman Catholicism after growing up Protestant. One of the things that was common to both the person in my class and Dr. Smith was interpreting Rome through the lens of Reformation theology. In other words, they read statements about justification, grace, faith, etc., in the Roman Catholic documents with an "evangelical" bent. In that way they can placate their desire for tradition, antiquity, unity, authority, or whatever else they long for, without having to abandon their theology wholesale. It seems to me that very few Roman Catholic converts evangelicalism wind up saying, "gee, I've really got to do more good works to merit salvation." Instead, they say "gee, I never knew Roman believed that a person is saved by grace through faith in Christ." I hope all Roman Catholics are equally mistaken about Roman Catholic theology and actually believe the true gospel in spite of Trent or the Catholic Catechism.

    Like 0 Short URL:
  • Guest - Anon

    Excellent Reformation Day discussion!

    "Justification (sixth session) was declared to be offered upon the basis of faith and good works as opposed to the Protestant doctrine of faith alone, and faith was treated as a progressive work. The idea of man being utterly passive under the influence of grace was also rejected."
    -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Trent

    Jacobus Arminius has technically won the Protestant battle (1 Calvinist for every 3 Arminians worldwide), yet Arminians (human dignity requires an unimpaired freedom of the will) are considered brothers-in-Christ by the hardest-core Calvinists I know. However, worst case, this Trent soteriology is on par with Arminius.

    Therefore, why would there be animus toward or even concern for Dr. Smith swimming the Tiber to Rome?

    Protestantism, with its 1000s of denominations (not including independent baptist congregations) is like a Parliament constantly trying to build a coalition government just so they can appear to agree on something.

    For better or for worse, the Roman Catholic Church is a church as Jesus prayed that we would be (John 17).

    Like 0 Short URL:
  • Guest - Matt

    Ya, I agree John 17 says everything about the Roman Catholic Church - Maryology, praying to and for dead people, Purgatory. Should I continue?

    Like 0 Short URL:
  • Guest - Anon

    Matt,

    (1.) To the extent that one refuses to honor Mary, and recognize that she is the Mother of God, he is a Nestorian -- a Christological heretic. If we don't remember and revere her, we are cut off. Catholics could never be accused of this.

    (2.) Since "We are surrounded by this great cloud of witnesses" can they only see and not hear us? Can these saints only see and not ask Christ to help us? If I request you to pray for me, may I not ask them for help, too?

    (3.) If there's no Purgatory, what is happening between the time of the elect's death and reunification of his body and soul? Perhaps this is the time the "snow covered dung" (Luther) is removed from each of us.

    Like 0 Short URL:
  • Guest - Matt

    To Anon,

    I'm not saying we shouldn't remember her or revere her. Maryology is quite different than remembering and revering her.

    Regardless of the great cloud of witnesses, the Bible doesn't instruct us to pray to or for those who have passed.

    Purgatory denies the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice. Do you really want to say to Christ that his sacrifice wasn't (quite) enough? I'll stick with Paul's absent from the body, present with the Lord concept. And I'll apprehend the mystery of where our non-corporeal souls go upon death.

    Like 0 Short URL:
  • Guest - Chris

    Anon said:
    (2.) Since “We are surrounded by this great cloud of witnesses” ...may I not ask them for help, too?

    The Bible says "no." The Scriptures clearly prohibit attempts to communicate with the dead (Lev. 19:31; 20:6; 20:27; Deut. 18:11; 1 Sam. 28). One cannot draw an inference from Hebrews 12:1 that is flatly contradicted by clear teaching elsewhere in Scripture. That is a basic hermeneutical principle.

    Like 0 Short URL:
  • Guest - JB

    Chris:

    If we are going to proof-text from Leviticus, to correct the great cloud of witnesses, please submit a group photo of your congregation which displays the various hairstyles so that we can see your compliance with the verse that appears just 4 verses before in Leviticus 19:27 ("You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard.") #selective literalism

    Like 0 Short URL:
  • [...] Should we Reform or Abandon American Protestantism?WHI-1073 Guilt, Grace & GratitudeWHI-208 Do We Need a Second Reformation?WHI-246 [...]

    Like 0 Short URL:
  • This episode inspired me to buy Christian's book and read it. Subsequently, I entered the Catholic church on 10/28/2012. Now having studied the differences in Evangelicalism and Catholicism for the last few years - I am even more certain I made the right choice. Christian Smith is not a theologian - and does a good job explaining his understanding of the doctrines as an educated sociologist. I would encourage Michael Horton to host an interview one day with Dr. Scott Hahn, who left the Presbyterian denomination for the Catholic church. I would imagine this would be a very good back and forth on the specific doctrines of faith and works, justification, and the council of Trent. If the WHI ever wants to really move the conversation forward from American Evangelicalism to true historical Christianity, I believe one should be willing to work to reconcile with Rome, since as St Ignatius of Antioch said "Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church"

    Like 0 Short URL: