WHI-1145 | Christ’s High Priestly Prayer
Mar.17, 2013 by
in
2013 Show Archive, The Gospel of John, White Horse Inn
In Isaiah, God says, “I will not give my glory to another,” yet in his high priestly prayer recorded in John 17 we find Jesus praying, “Father… glorify your son that the son may glorify you.” How are we to understand these words? Also what is the meaning of his words, “for their sake I sanctify myself that they may be truly sanctified”? In this edition, we will consider the implications of this prayer of Jesus for the church today.
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March 19th, 2013 at 9:41 am
Greetings in the name of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ!
Praise God for the Words of Jesus speaking into our life today which you spoke in your talk- Jesus gave the Church the Apostles teaching which are the words of Christ Jesus that whosoever believes in Jesus will have eternal life!
Please, watch the installation Mass of Pope Francis and hear the Apostles Teaching within the Church that for 2,000 years has believed and taught The Gospel of the Kingdom of God as Jesus handed down through the Apostles. Yes, there are weeds and wheat throughout the history, always remember it is through the Power of God that Jesus said, “I will build my Church.”
Ewtn 6pm EST, 3pm PST http://www.ewtn.com
Praying for John 17 Unity which only God can accomplish which Jesus our Intercessor continues to pray for us today!
Shalom
March 20th, 2013 at 5:25 am
I have just recently found your messages, and found that I agree with ALMOST all you believe.
Points of disagreement or clarification of scripture you have NOT addressed:
Where Paul teaches that because the scriptures have come to us THROUGH the Jews that we should NOT discount the salvation of the Jews BECAUSE OF their UNBELIEF, because, their UNBELIEF was so the WE could also be included in this GREAT Salvation. He also said, that if we became arrogant concerning OUR faith vs the Jews UNBELIEF we could lose our GRAFT in Jesus Christ.
Concerning the Baptism of Infants: I belief we can dedicate our children TO the Father in Jesus Christ by the Holy Spirit THROUGH our prayers and our “training them up in the Way they should go…”, BUT baptism does not save them or us, it is a sign that we have BELEVED in Jesus as Christ BY FAITH, which SOME children and infants cannot do. I do not say that children cannot become Christians by faith because they can. I was saved when I was about 12 years old, BUT I was not taught in the Lord or His Word until years later.
I think these are the only two exceptions where I disagree with your scriptural positions and teachings. I may find more as I learn about this theology.
March 21st, 2013 at 11:55 pm
Glenda, one of the hosts of the White Horse Inn is Ken Jones who is a baptist minister and believes in adult baptism as you do.
My take on baptism is that there are plenty of examples in scripture where it comes after belief, and with regard to adult baptism the hosts of the White Horse Inn would agree with you. Both lutheran and reformed will baptize adults after a profession of faith. The question is with regard to infants, should christian parents baptize infants? I’m not going to go at length but scripture mentions about whole families being baptized, and it doesn’t seem to exclude infants. With that said scripture doesn’t specifically command christians to baptize their newborns either. The argument for infant baptism is that baptism saves when accompanied by the word and faith. Baptism can be effective for salvation, and when children grow it’s followed by a profession of faith. The advantage of this doctrine is that it makes baptism a means of grace, it is something God does, for a lot of evangelicals today baptism is a decision a believer makes. This detracts from baptism as a means of grace, in that all of a sudden baptism depends on a human decision as if it were a commitment that man makes to God. For the Reformed and Lutheran, it is the opposite baptism is a commitment that God makes to man. God bestows his saving grace through baptism, man is completely a passive recipient. It’s like circumcision for the Israelites, children were circumcised after they were born.
With regard to the jews, well they need to be converted just like everybody else! Yes they are God’s precious people in history, and they are the elect people of God in the Old Testament, the promise of the Messiah was given to the jews. It was only after their rejection of the gospel of Christ that the gentiles were grafted in as Paul teaches in Romans (Romans 11 I believe), with that said the jews need Christ for salvation and ultimately they can only be saved through faith in Jesus Christ. The jews can not be saved if they stay in unbelief as you seem to imply, even in the old testament not all jews were saved but only those that trusted in the promise of the messiah. Salvation is through Jesus Christ in both the old and the new testament, in the old testament is the promise of the messiah that is to come.
I’m glad you find the White Horse Inn a very solid christian ministry. I started listening to it about 6 or 7 years ago. They always put Christ and the gospel first, and they bring the theology of the Reformation (both lutheran and calvinist) to the forefront.
March 22nd, 2013 at 12:33 am
You see God’s promises in baptism are the sames as in his preached word, baptism cleanses us from all sin and connects the physical means (water) with the spiritual (God’s promises in the preached word through Jesus Christ). When we look back at baptism we are reminded of God’s promise to us, in Romans 6 Paul teaches how christians ought to view baptism and what it means. Many of the christians in Romans 6 although they had been baptized they still needed to be taught what baptism meant. This is why an understanding of the faith can come after baptism, as infants grow they are instructed in the faith and taught what their baptism means, so that they can look at their baptism in faith. Baptism is simply a physical means that embodies the doctrine of the gospel
My concern with evangelicals, is that they view baptism as a decision an adult makes after he has faith in Christ. It’s like a commitment to the christian faith. When this happens the connection between baptism and the gospel is lost. The biblical teaching is that God works through baptism the remission of sins, man being a passive recipient of salvation. Man does not contribute anything (neither does he make a decision for or commitment to Christ, otherwise salvation would not be of grace alone but grace plus a decision / commitment).
March 22nd, 2013 at 8:21 am
And I should add that even traditional arminians (methodists) practice infant baptism. This methodist gives some solid reasons why infant baptism is different from child dedication or christening http://methodistjourney.blogspot.ca/2011/10/is-baptism-same-thing-as-christening.html
Bottom line is this, baptism is a sacrament. God creates and strengthens faith through baptism. God does the same in the Lord’s Supper. Sacraments are means of grace, like the preached word that create and sustain us in our faith.
Glenda, if baptism were a sign of our faith as you suggest, then it’s not a means of grace any more by which God works faith in us. Instead baptism becomes a work. Good works are signs or evidence of our faith. Baptism is not. Unfortunately evangelicalism sees baptism as a work, as something we do to show our faith and commitment to God, instead of something God does to create faith in us. Basically baptism stops being a means of grace where we are recipients of God’s grace. For the reformers word and sacrament (baptism and the Lord’s Supper) are the only means of grace and the purpose of the sacraments is through physical elements to strengthen our faith in Christ.
March 22nd, 2013 at 8:31 am
http://www.orlutheran.com/html/whoswork.html
Here it is short and sweet the above lutheran link answers the question. Baptism is not our work for God that we do out of obedience, it is God’s work for us by which we are saved and given new life. Denying this is simply denying baptism as a sacrament and means of grace.
March 22nd, 2013 at 9:17 am
I would recommend everybody read that lutheran link I posted, it is a must to understand baptism. Specially all the scripture provided and the expounding of the great commission, we make disciples through both baptizing and teaching. I will copy paste the last paragraph of this great lutheran summary from the link I provided in my last post http://www.orlutheran.com/html/whoswork.html:
“On the basis of these strong words of Scripture, we Lutherans have become convinced that baptism is God’s powerful work by which the Holy Spirit accomplishes salvation in us. How sad, then, when baptism is turned into a pitiful work of obedience that we do for God, a work that does nothing but only symbolizes what has already taken place. How sadder still, when baptism is completely thrown aside and “dedication,” which is nothing but man-made piety, is substituted. It is certainly true that often adults are converted by faith in the Gospel before they are baptized. But there is also no getting around this Scriptural evidence, that baptism is a powerful means of grace in which God (not us) works wonders. In baptism, God is the giver and we are to be the receiver (through faith).”