Joel Osteen and Family Feud
On Friday, July 13, 2012, Joel Osteen made an appearance in Cleveland, Ohio. Fourteen thousand people filed into Quicken Loans Arena that evening to take in “A Night of Hope.” I had no desire to attend, but I did want to head downtown and do something outside the gathering as an act of quiet personal protest.
For weeks prior to the event, I pondered what to do. So one night, to find some inspiration, I tuned in the weekly broadcast from Lakewood Church. When channel-surfing I will sometimes briefly watch Osteen, but on this occasion I committed myself to watching the entire show. Within minutes, I knew what I should to do: So I paused the channel, went to my home-office, and returned with a pen and pad of paper. I started writing down the key words and phrases I heard Osteen emphasize in his talk. By the end of the hour, I had over twenty items on the list.
Recalling an interview (was it on CNN?) in which Michael Horton called Osteen’s teaching “Cotton Candy Christianity,” I wrote that term as a heading above the list. I then thought about what alternative words or phrases might be listed alongside each item on the Osteen list. I found this all too easy—and in less than two minutes, I had my companion set of terms representing “Historical-Biblical Christianity.” I returned to my office and typed up the list. Once completed, all I needed was a heading for the flyer. Also easy: “The JOEL OSTEEN Scorecard.” (Download a PDF file of the final product.)
On the morning of Friday the 13th, I printed 250 copies of the scorecard on pink paper (pink struck me as the appropriate color). In the afternoon, I read Paul’s Letter to the Galatians, and I prayed that should God give me occasion to talk to anyone, that I would speak the truth in love. And then early that evening, also equipped with seven copies of Christless Christianity that I had ordered for the event, I headed for “the Q” (or “the Loaner” as one Cleveland friend of mine likes to call it), most curious about what I would encounter.
After parking, I asked a police officer where I was permitted to stand and hand out pamphlets. He directed me across the street, off the private property of the arena. There I joined two Mitt Romney volunteers soliciting signatures (for what I did not know, as Romney had already won the Ohio G.O.P. primary and secured the Republican nomination).
People streamed by me. I quickly had to figure out what to say as my pitch. I tried, “Get your scorecard,” which generated little interest. When I changed it to “Get your Joel Osteen Scorecard,” well, that drew much more interest. And interestingly, when just one person in a passing cluster took a pink sheet, others were much more inclined to take one as well. The flyers went out in bunches. A few people asked what the sheet was for; I simply explained it was for note-taking and “checking off the terms you might hear tonight.” That seemed to satisfy most all takers.
I also had to consider to whom I would give away copies of Horton’s book. I decided to give to the first people I spotted carrying Bibles. I gave away two such copies, but decided to change my criteria after one woman took a copy, crossed the street, but after examining the book, crossed back and returned to me. “I’m not interested in this,” she politely said, giving back the book.
So I decided to give my remaining copies of the book to young adults who appeared of high school age. The highlight here: the final kid to get a copy really lit up in excitement. He looked me in the eyes, really looked me in the eyes, unlike anyone else that evening, and said, “Thank you; I appreciate this.” I said a quick prayer for him as he crossed the street clutching the book, and the kind of clutching one does with something truly valued.
I gave away all 250 scorecard sheets in just under one hour. That’s about one every fifteen seconds. The time flew by, and the experience was much more hurried than I had anticipated—a function I think of the proximity to the arena and the eagerness of most folks to get in. As busy as I was, within a few minutes I had decided to take note of two phenomena: (1) the number of people I saw toting Bibles (those prepared to say, “This is my Bible…”), and (2) the number of people who stopped to engage in a more in-depth conversation. (I was prepared to cease all pamphleteering for just one serious conversation.)
Let me here report the results:
Bibles: 15. That’s not fifteen carried by people who took a pink sheet. That’s fifteen among everyone who walked by. Bear in mind, I was practicing very intentional looking: I looked at every person who passed by my street corner. I noticed a lot in the short amount of time I had. Two carried iPads, for example, and maybe they had Bible software loaded; more likely not (“This is my iPad…”). And I estimated that for every person who took a scorecard, five others did not. By my calculations then, that’s 1,250 who walked by me. Considering my spot was one of about a dozen crosswalks available to get to the arena, the 1,250 estimate also jives with the reported figure of 14,000 who attended.
So do the math: 15 bibles, 1,250 passers by. That’s 1.25% Bible-carrying Osteenites.
Conversation: 2 parties stopped to spend a few minutes to talk. Just two.
The first was a father with his three sons. It turns out the dad was not dragging his boys to hear Osteen; they were on their way to another event. The man was most curious about what was on the sheet, what I was doing, and why. I showed him the scorecard. After studying it closely, he said, “I get it.” He then shared that he had only a slight familiarity with Osteen, that he was Roman Catholic, and that he was from Georgia. He also commented that “down in Atlanta, we have lots of mega-churches and televangelists, and most of them are bad news.” I shared that I was unashamedly Protestant, and was hoping to simply provoke some attending the Osteen event to pause and question what they were hearing. The gentleman’s parting words to me: “Good for you.”
The second interaction was with a married couple, David and Kim. Kim carried a Bible; David did not. After taking a copy of the scorecard and examining it, David got very excited. He shared that he had never watched Joel Osteen, had never read one of his books. “She dragged me here,” he explained, with a nod toward his wife. “Go on in,” I said, “But be sure to check off what words and phrases you hear tonight. And when you get home, I have a suggestion: read the book of Galatians, the whole book. And compare what you read from Paul with what you hear from Osteen. In fact, I’d encourage you to read Galatians every day for one week. It will only take twenty minutes each day.” David looked at me, smiled, pointed at me, and said, “I’ll do that; I will.” Then he crossed the street, with an extra hop in his step.
I did too after I ran out of scorecards.
When I returned home, a bit exhausted, I sat down and turned on the television. A few channels into surfing, I stumbled upon Family Feud. I watched three or four survey questions, and five or six attempts to guess the top responses for each. Each time, regardless of the quality of the guess, family members shouted “Good answer, good answer.” Even when the answer was an obviously bad answer, a decidedly miserable answer, the participants wishfully chanted, “Good answer, good answer.” And it hit me just how much like Family Feud is the spectacle of Joel Osteen and his misguided followers: “Good answer, good answer.”
Make no mistake: A good answer is not the Good News.
If you have a friend who watches Joel Osteen, consider giving her or him a copy of the scorecard (on pink paper, please) and most importantly, follow-up with a conversation.
—
James Gilmore is the co-author of the bestselling book, The Experience Economy. A prolific speaker and popular business consultant, Jim has also been a guest on White Horse Inn and has recently written for Modern Reformation. Jim is a Batten Fellow and Adjunct Lecturer at the Darden School of Business at the University of Virginia. He is also a Visiting Lecturer in Apologetics at Westminster Seminary California, where he teaches a course on cultural hermeneutics


August 26th, 2012 at 9:05 am
A Primer on Evangelical Worship for Wayward Reformed Youth
Fall is upon us and many of our covenant youth (kids raised in Reformed churches who have been baptized) are heading off to college. Now biblically sound Reformed churches are hard to find so these kids, either because there are no Reformed options, or because they are “playing the field”, may find themselves in an evangelical worship service. I have written this primer to help these youth make sense of what they encounter.
One of the first things you will encounter, probably as soon as you drive onto the large, well-landscaped grounds, is the fact that evangelicals are better dressed and just plain better looking than the Reformed people you are accustomed to. This is o.k. – evangelicals can’t help it. Back in my evangelical days a church I went to was considering a mission statement. They initially proposed something like “reaching out to upwardly mobile young professionals in X” before someone wisely thought better of it.
Once you are inside the “Worship Center” (“church” is so your grandparents’ generation) you will figure out that evangelicals drink way better coffee than Reformed people do. Most likely there will be a full-fledged Starbucks type establishment from which you can buy a latte, cappuccino, coffee, etc. In Reformed churches the plain black coffee comes after the service, usually with a doughnut or something someone has brought (“treats”). In the evangelical church you can take your drink into the service and enjoy it the whole time.
When the worship service starts you will most likely encounter the “worship leader”. No, the pastor is not the worship leader like in your Reformed church. This worship leader will be either a middle-aged guy with a haircut that belongs on a younger man or a young woman who looks like a more-modest version of Britney Spears or Jessica Simpson. Either way as the rocking praise band (usually consisting of at least one kid who looks about 12 — usually on the drums — and one man who looks about 55 — usually on the bass) begins to play you will find yourself distracted from the lyrics on the large screen (no Psalters or hymnals here) by either the middle-aged guy (because he is so awkward in trying to be hipper than he is) or by the young woman (because she is so attractive). Anyway, just go with it. They will be spending 20 minutes or so “singing you sweaty” and there is no escape.
After the “worship” has taken place there might be some kind of announcements given — maybe via video or maybe even a skit. Whatever happens will be, like everything that has taken place thus far, very hip & high-tech.
At this point the pastor will finally appear. He is the guy wearing laid-back, non-threatening clothes (definitely not a three-piece suit or tie). He is probably wearing some kind of headset or portable microphone because he needs to be free to roam the stage. There is no pulpit to stand behind (also very grandparentish). His hairstyle, like the male worship leader, is probably more meant for a younger man. The pastor is feeling a lot of pressure to keep up with the attractive members, however, so give him a break.
Now as a Reformed youth you are used to long, theologically rich sermons with perhaps quite a bit of opening up your Bible. There may be references to the various Reformed Creeds & Confessions (you may have even confessed something from these earlier in the Reformed worship service). In the evangelical Church you will most likely not “need” your Bible since the relevant verses will be put up on the video screen.
In a Reformed church sermon there will most likely be a distinction made between the Law of God (His requirements for how we act toward Him and other people) and the Gospel (what God has provided in Christ because we fail to keep His requirements). The purpose of the law is to show us our sinfulness and our need for Christ. The purpose of the gospel is to save us and enable us to keep the law in some measure. The gospel is what makes us able to do good works beause through it the Holy Spirit comes to live in us and change our minds and actions.
In an evangelical church the gospel will most likely be preached, but it will be more for the benefit of any unbelievers who are present (you may even be considered one by these folks because you were baptized as a baby and not as a “believer” — but more on that later). What you, the believer, will get from the sermon is helpful tips for living your daily life (which is actually just a kinder, gentler, watered down version of law). You will be told that now that Jesus has saved you the Christian life is all about getting energized and getting out and doing the hard work of building God’s Kingdom on Earth. Jesus has done so much for you, what are you going to do for Him? At this point there may even be some suggestions of how you can get involved in politics to help restore our country to “the godly nation it once was”, (but this won’t necessarily be present in all evangelical churches).
In other words – it’s backward from what you’ve grown up with. In a Reformed church the law is preached to show you that you are a sinner who needs the gospel. When you hear & believe the gospel you are changed and then keep the law (although always imperfectly). In an evangelical church you will come in, not confess sins corporately as you may have done in your Reformed church, hear the gospel (as if you’re a good person who just needs to be reminded of it), and then be told to go keep and “do” the law.
Anyway, the sermon in the evangelical church will most likely be shorter than you are used to and will include more stories and experiences from the pastor’s own family and life. He may use the video screen to show a movie clip or something he thinks is relevant to the sermon topic. Note that the biblical text will often serve as a “springboard” for whatever the pastor wants to talk about. The pastor is kind of driving the text vs. the text driving the pastor in the manner you are hopefully used to.
Now about that video screen – as you look around the worship center auditorium you may see art work or maybe even some stained glass or pictures of Jesus. Evangelicals do not share the Reformed interpretation of the 2nd commandment regarding making images. Your Reformed church was most likely very simple with few images. Not so in the evangelical church.
As the service draws to a close you may learn that one of the two sacraments are being celebrated. Now we could talk about the differences between Reformed and evangelical understandings of the sacraments for a long time, but for now I’ll just give you a few basic differences to consider. Regarding communion, in your Reformed church you most likely experienced some degree of “fencing the table”. This is the practice of the elders (the evangelical church may or may not have elders) trying to determine whether or not people who want to take communion are members in good standing of a Christian church. This is done for the benefit of these people because we believe that people who are not Christians who take communion are eating and drinking judgment onto themselves. In an evangelical church there will most likely be either no fencing of the table or a brief announcement that communion is for believers. No one will interview you, ask if you are a church member, or ask if you have made a formal profession of faith. While your Reformed church most likely had a view that Christ is really spiritually present during communion, evangelicals will almost certainly take a “memorial” view — it is something that the church does to remember Christ. No real presence.
If there is a baptism that day there will most likely not be a baby anywhere near it. Most evangelicals (unless they are Lutherans or liberal Reformed types trying to be evangelicals) will only baptize people that have made what they consider to be a valid profession of faith. This generally means no one under the age of 10 or so. The baptism will most likely be by immersion (the baptized and the baptizer will really get WET) and will generally involve a time of testimony — often with plenty of details about the bad things the soon to be baptized person did before becoming a Christian. Why do we differ so much with non-Reformed people on baptism? Generally-speaking it is because we are covenant theologians (more on this another day) and we see parallels between the Old Testament practice of circumcision and Christian baptism. For us it is more about what God does for the children of believing parents than it is what a new believer does for God. This is a foreign concept to most evangelicals — although it is interesting to note that they do “baby dedications”, which kind of makes you scratch your head since it is not a sacrament and is not commanded in the Bible.
We could talk about lots of other differences – TULIP (what you have hopefully learned about from the Canons of Dort & had drilled into you from years of Reformed preaching), the Regulative Principle of Worship, differences in eschatology (your Reformed church was most likely Amillennial, the evangelical church will most likely be Premillennial or Panmillennial — as an old evangelical pastor used to joke “it will all pan out in the end”), differences in making sense of the Old Testament, and on and on. For now I need to move on, though.
Let me conclude by trying to convince you that it is o.k. to check out evangelical churches for a time — going to college is all about trying new things — but consider very carefully the rich Reformed tradition you were brought up in. The Reformed expression of the Christian faith is truly a beautiful thing and should not be squandered. Think carefully about it.
August 26th, 2012 at 11:16 am
Only God knows if Joel Osteen is a true man of God in his heart. I wonder, reading the critique of his message in this article, whether anyone has loveingly confronted him about the fluff of his message. He’s obviously been gifted by God to be an evangelist, so if his heart is open to truth, he could change his message and win many people to the Lord.
August 26th, 2012 at 2:33 pm
How can Joel be a gifted evangelist when he has stated on national tv that he would never preach the full Gospel, and believes that cultists are christians too? I have seen no evidence that he has any understanding of the Gospel or the rest of the Word.
August 27th, 2012 at 4:44 am
[...] Joel Olsteen and Family Feud – How one person responded to Joel Olsteen’s visit to his hometown. [...]
August 27th, 2012 at 8:57 am
This article and encounter you had at the Osteen event is illuminating. I dare say you could do this checklist with any NT book and any one of his messages. I do however like the book of Galatians. His message definitely doesn’t add up. I guess the people might have had a hard time checking off one of the items listed under historical biblical Christianity at the Osteen event. Good post I appreciate how you did this lovingly and with true concern not yelling at people etc. god bless your efforts
August 27th, 2012 at 9:43 am
Great! Do we have permission to put Scripture references in the right side column? I’ll try to use texts from the confessions as much as possible.
August 27th, 2012 at 1:12 pm
Joel Osteen Scorecard:
‘Guest’ has time to watch Joel Osteen, create a scorecard, print out 250 copies, and go protest outside the event in which Osteen is trying to help 14,000 people meet God.
Joel Osteen preaches to hundreds of thousands of people every week. ‘Guest’….?
This is why new atheism is on the rise. Christians love to fight with each other. They can’t just co-exist. You think Joel Osteen is preaching a “false” gospel? Fine, then preach the “real” one (and not by protesting and belittling other Christians). But I would rather hear him speak the name of God. Than deny his existence. Pick your battles. While the ‘Christians’ are fighting and arguing with each other atheists, Muslims, whoever are slipping right past and preaching their message to the masses. While in general that’s my conclusion, the big difference here is: Osteen isn’t bothering to stop and argue with his “fellow Christians” instead, he’s in an auditorium spreading God’s love to 14,000 people.
August 27th, 2012 at 8:42 pm
Tyler D.
Given your expressed point of view it is amazing that you took the time to comment here or “to stop and argue with [your] ‘fellow Christians’”!
August 27th, 2012 at 9:13 pm
Tyler, have you read Galatians? Paul was much more vehement to respond to the heretics in Galatia than the OP was in his response to Osteen, going so far as to say he wished they’d emasculate themselves if they insist on preaching legalism. And this is exactly what Joel Osteen is doing. The Reformed Christians who read this blog have a desire to make sure people who are attending so-called Christian events and Churches are aware that they are being lead astray from historic Christianity, because law divorced from the Gospel may give you some insightful tips for the week, but it leads to burn-out and we see this time and again from backsliders whose hearts are as cold as a stone as soon as you mention God or Christ. That is a field of evangelism just the same as Muslims and atheists.
August 27th, 2012 at 9:41 pm
yes i have read galatians. and when paul said they should emasculate themselves he was only using that rhetoric to prove a point, not insist upon an actual castration
August 27th, 2012 at 9:47 pm
im only saying, if half of the time reformed christians, and young calvinists in particular (and i believe i have the right to make this accusation since i used to be a young reformed christian who joined in on the regular hangouts [gospel coalition, challis, b2w, resurgence, etcerera] and im only 23 now)spent fighting with other christians was used to do evangelize to non-christians, do mission work, etcetera, I think it would be better spent. and i think a little epistemological humility by many members of the reformed camp wouldn’t be too bad a thing either
August 28th, 2012 at 6:56 am
Tyler, I agree with you that we must take more time preaching the real gospel.
But the problem, as Gilmore tried to point out, is that the “real gospel preachers”, bible-centered, christ-centered, cross-centered; does not have an audience of 14,000.
New atheist are on rise for the same reason Osteen could get 14k on a stadium, “a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching” (2 Timothy 4:3)
Only 1.25% carried out a bible, how could we test if the preaching is real gospel?
Yes, we must re-think our methods and focus on real-gosple preaching, but, the epistles were wrote, inspired by the holy spirit, to correct false gospel teachings or for “good answer” about God’s love.
And this action of Gilmore is nothing more than that of the bereans, “They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth.” (Acts 17:11)
May God let us have more oportunities to preach the real gospel (and I really believe that what Gilmore does is part of that preaching).
August 28th, 2012 at 7:00 am
I’m glad to see a Reformed person go out and do face-to-face street work.
August 28th, 2012 at 1:52 pm
Tyler D.: You are so right!!!! In a recent BeliefNet article, the writer visited Osteen’s church in Houston and noticed — in stark contrast to James Gilmore’s experience — that “Everyone and I mean everyone is carrying a Bible.” I know that today scores of Christians have Bibles on their phones (my wife, for instance), so I doubt Gilmore’s statistics.
Having said that; however, I do imagine that a significant number of people did not have their Bibles at Osteen’s Cleveland event… Why? Because so many of them don’t go to church. (Osteen says that 50% of the people that attend his events don’t.)
Knowing that so many people who come to his events don’t go to church, Osteen has made it a mission to hook up with a dozen or more local churches (of various denominations)in every city he goes to and, during his event, encourage the “unchurched” attendees to visit those local churches. According to these churches, literally hundreds of visitors show up the following Sunday. People are hungry for God, but many who have never been to Church just don’t know where to go. Bottom line: Osteen is getting people into local churches of all denominations, while Mr. Gilmore stands outside and talks to 10 people tops. That makes me wonder: How much more effective would James Gilmore have been had he merely given out flyers and kindly invited these lost souls to visit his church on Sunday? I dare say he would have had dozens show up. Instead, he decided to go to an Osteen event and hand out a scorecard that would show people how wrong Osteen is. It is no wonder he struck out. This is typical of the Gilmore ilk.
August 29th, 2012 at 2:48 am
[...] steal from Challies — sorry, Tim — is this unnamed individual who finds a unique way to protest a Joel Osteen appearance. [...]
August 29th, 2012 at 9:53 am
Tyler D: you are absolutely right. This sanctimonious acrimony between Bible-based Christians is what’s tearing our Christian effectiveness apart. Forgetting Galatians for a moment, what about Philippians? – where Paul makes a very different response to those who are not preaching the true gospel message (3:2-4) from those who are preaching the gospel, but badly and with mixed motives.
Of this group he says (ch 1), “That doesn’t matter. Whether their motives are false or genuine, the message about Christ is being preached either way, so I rejoice. And I will continue to rejoice.” I can’t detect the teensiest element of rejoicing in this post that thousands of people are being confronted with Jesus and Scripture through the admittedly unsatisfactory preaching of Joel Osteen; just an overweening, implicit theological superiority which would rather see an imperfect brother dragged down and criticized, than helped, supported and restored. That saddens me – as does the hostile responses your comment has received.
August 30th, 2012 at 3:18 am
[...] Joel Osteen and Family Feud From Whitehorse: A few channels into surfing, I stumbled upon Family Feud. I watched three or four survey questions, and five or six attempts to guess the top responses for each. Each time, regardless of the quality of the guess, family members shouted “Good answer, good answer.” Even when the answer was an obviously bad answer, a decidedly miserable answer, the participants wishfully chanted, “Good answer, good answer.” And it hit me just how much like Family Feud is the spectacle of Joel Osteen and his misguided followers: “Good answer, good answer.” [...]
August 30th, 2012 at 8:56 am
Tyler D/Last Man Standing,
It is NOT about numbers. It’s about TRUTH. Jesus never appealed to the masses.
With respect, IF Osteen really believes what he says, he will be in the same hell as Muslims and unbelievers, etc.
And if anyone goes along with his main motto, believing the Osteen theology, truly THIS life IS your best life . . . .because the next will be spent in eternal damnation. Selah
This is a terrifying prospect.
Osteen’s false teaching is not cotton candy. It is rat poison, toxic, deadly and satanic.
Satan always looks good and counterfeits the things of God.
As for the “mission field” and/or comparing Gilmore’s effort to Osteen…be aware, Scripture teaches the entire earth IS the mission field. Every Christian is a missionary in the sense of being faithful messengers of The Message, the True Gospel.
Be afraid of God’s wrath and pray for Osteen and his followers.
He has much to answer for unless he repents . . . for Christ teaches what becomes of men misleading the sheep.
August 30th, 2012 at 2:00 pm
[...] James Gilmore came up with a Joel Osteen Scorecard for when you listen to him preach. Very [...]
August 30th, 2012 at 7:11 pm
Robin,
You know for a fact, with absolute certainty, that Osteen is going to hell?
All people need Christ for salvation. Fine. What exactly does that mean? A verbal admission of faith, a conversion, a heart change, a baptism, a mental awareness, an opportunity to know Christ, growing up in a Christian family?
The type of Christianity that seems fine with saying this person and that person are going to hell, die the death of a thousand qualifications.
August 30th, 2012 at 9:47 pm
Jose,
“Only 1.25% carried out a bible, how could we test if the preaching is real gospel?”
You don’t need to have your bible physically present to test if he is preaching the real gospel. If you’re listening to a sermon and also so intent upon “fact” checking everything the preacher says then you are missing the edifying part of the sermon and just being a critic. What is the point of bringing you bible to church, or to a Christian event? If it is to just find something you disagree with then I think you’ve (not you specifically) lost your way. You should have your bible to follow along with the sermon, or to use in small groups. Also I don’t think bringing your bible to church makes you any more holy than the people who don’t. If there are theological problems or concerns in someone’s sermon, fine. Take what is good and leave the rest. But don’t focus on the negative so you can critique and talk about how bad someone’s theology is.
Also maybe what Gilmore is doing is good gospel teaching, fine. But is it the wisest thing to do? I think that is the real question. Is protesting someones event really the best way to get the attention of Osteen, his camp, or even the Christians attending the event. IMHO I think that handing out pamphlets that attempt to undermine and correct what Osteen is saying, at Osteen’s event, does nothing but show non-Christians and new Christians that Christians apparently can’t agree or get along. If you are not there to relationally help those people who you are handing the pamphlets to then I think it is unwise to protest in that manner.
I’m not saying Christians shouldn’t or can’t disagree with one another but we should be careful when we do and attempt first to speak to the person we disagree with. Some may say, “You could never get access to Osteen,” and that is something that is of course an issue but again, I ask, is it best to protest in that manner anyways.
Frankly I think, and Jose I am not accusing you of this but just as a general observation, I have never seen more fire-starting, arguing, disagreeing, and obscenely ignorant comments than on Reformed, New Calvinist, and Traditional Calvinist sites. And the sad thing is, among many, that most of the people on these sites can’t truly defend their position, all they have done is parrot what they read from the Christians who operate and write on these sites and when confronted say, “Hey! Don’t get mad at me for my tone or aggressiveness, this is a Gospel issue!!” Is it though?
August 30th, 2012 at 10:07 pm
Robin,
“It is NOT about numbers. It’s about TRUTH. Jesus never appealed to the masses.”
That argument doesn’t help your position because Jesus never appealing to the masses is not the same thing as Osteen appealing to the masses. The options in Jesus’ time were: trust in Jesus or trust in another God. That is different from the options here: trust in Jesus (Osteen) or trust in Jesus in the way Reformed people insist you do. Saying Jesus never appealed to the masses is a totally different argument than the one I am making.
August 31st, 2012 at 8:41 am
[...] it HERE at The White Horse [...]
September 2nd, 2012 at 9:33 am
Robin, are you kidding?!? Did you really just say that Jesus never preached to the masses???? He not only preached to them, He fed them!!! Remember the 5000 and the fish & loaves? The crowds followed Him day and night. When He entered Jerusalem, the throngs cried out “Hosanna” and placed palm leaves before Him. The fact that He drew such largee crowds is exactly why the Saducees, Pharisees, and Romans feared Him and eventually killed Him. Robin you can’t say stuff like this and expect us to take you seriously.
September 2nd, 2012 at 9:44 am
Robin: One more thing. Do you really think that Osteen’s book “Your Best Life Now” is saying that this life can be better than eternal life with Jesus? Either you are so shallow as to believe that, which if so, “Bless your heart,” or you are intentionally trying to get others to think Osteen is teaching that so you can argue with him (in which case… Shame on you.).
For those who did not read the book (like Robin), “Your Best Life Now” helps people to understand who they truly are once they become Believers. It helps one to develop a closer realtionship with God… a daily reelationship… that permeates your life, draws you closer to God and allows you to live this life in the BEST way possible.
September 7th, 2012 at 10:40 am
joel saved my life and gave me new hope when i had none
September 10th, 2012 at 12:28 am
WOW! Can I just boil some comments down to this: can’t we just all get along?
OK, that was my feeling. Hey, if it does not matter what Gospel someone preaches. If it does not matter what Jesus someone preaches. Then what good is the Bible? What good is the Gospel? What good is preaching of the word? If someone comes along and just says nice things about God and Jesus does that make it OK? Really? You want to go with that. Sure, we can disagree about methods on how to reach people. But if, in it all, the truth does not matter. Then I have to ask some of you, why be a Christian? Does it just make you feel warm and fuzzy? Hey, there are plenty of cults with a Christian bent to them that will work just as well, in that case. Or hey, skip the God thing altogether. There are plenty of motivational speakers out there that can fill that perceived void. Since, for some here, it is a bone of contention, I will not name names. And there are many of them then mentioned here. But I can say with certainty, there are those out there who wear a christian label and they are purely a motivational speaker. They don’t preach God’s word, they have not good news other then what this world claims. Skip the middle man, if you feel that works for you.
But, as for me, I want to hear from God’s word. Not someones good word where they strip God’s word out of context. If that bugs you, so be it.
Sorry for the length and rambling. Unlike another poster I’m not trying to open a new blog here. I just found some of the comments a bit over the top and felt I had to say something.
Oh, and I hate captchas! (grin)
September 11th, 2012 at 7:25 pm
The real issue beyond the fact that his gospel is no gospel at all, is this. How can you preach God is pigging bank waiting to fulfill our every need and then think the people who were loving that would ever listen to a foreign concept like “suffering for Christ?” Not only is he teaching heresy, He is making it much harder to teach the truth to these people who have been fooled.
“For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,” 2 Timothy 4:3 ESV
September 12th, 2012 at 7:59 am
Today is the first day I listened to anything from Joel Osteen. I was intrigued by a very motivational talk he gave- maybe it was a sermon, I don’t know- and I wanted to learn more about his background. I skimmed the internet, read a bit & found myself here. What a disappointment. I can see the perspective of using traditional terms, and preferring to keep with a format you have been raised on & believe; maybe you find it more true than the ‘cotton candy’ equivalents that were listed. But here’s what I took away from each experience I had this morning:
Joel Osteen: great speaker, good message, over all advising to trust God. Try to live the life God has set out for me. I like it. Also, made me want to check out a bible. Learn a little more. (*I was raised Roman Catholic, we didn’t really have to read the bible to be ok with our church.)
This Scorecard Guy: pretty much knocked me back a notch, because I got such an overall feeling of hate, or at least heavy duty judgement, directed towards another person that I remembered why organized religion doesn’t appeal to me. The point of emphasizing the use of “pink paper” was truly telling about the authors personal maturity level. Did I miss the part where he said he was in junior high? If so, I apoligize. But I can’t help but mention a funny shirt I saw while visiting an actual junior high school; a really big, tough-looking boy was wearing a pink t-shirt with something written on it. The shirt said: “Laugh all you want, it’s Your Girlfriend’s shirt.” Maybe Mr. Scorecard is a little jealous because Osteen is getting attention?
I’ll tell you, in the way that people use the term “gateway drug” to describe some light experimentation that leads to heavy drug use, I would say that Joel Osteen can -and probably does- serve as a “gateway Christian.” This potentially could lead to someone delving much deeper into the faith, learning more, turning over a new leaf, maybe even moving along to a church that speaks primarily in all those traditional terms. Isn’t Christianity about spreading the word of God?
However, judgemental demonstrations of a ‘holier than thou’ Christian like the producer of the scorecards serves as a reminder for me to keep my faith practices safe & study on my own, and not in a curch where people look for ways to keep score of how much more saved they are.
God is the scorekeeper. Not you.
September 12th, 2012 at 8:33 am
I correct myself: God is the scorekeeper, not US. —-and from the sound of it, He’s a lot more forgiving than some of the voices I’m hearing here.
February 5th, 2013 at 1:58 pm
[...] author of The Experience Economy, has produced a scorecard by which to evaluate Osteen’s message. The key phrases under the Osteen column are telling. More pointedly, Mike Horton writes: Make no [...]
April 27th, 2013 at 8:48 am
[...] Joel Olsteen and Family Feud, HT to Challies. Be sure to check out the scorecard. [...]