WHI-1102 | The Worship Experience
The worship wars are over, and most Protestant churches now feature a praise band or worship team. In the quest for relevance, today’s churches offer worship experiences that are in tune with the expectations that parishioners receive from contemporary pop culture. However, some are beginning to recognize that this pop-music worship style lacks a certain transcendence, and in their quest to find a sense of the sacred, many are abandoning evangelicalism and are becoming Roman Catholic or Eastern Orthodox. So is this new appreciation for Gregorian chants and swinging incense a healthy reaction? What is worship anyway? That’s what’s on tap on this edition of White Horse Inn.
Shane Rosenthal
Michael Horton
Michael Horton
Lendol Calder (offsite)
PDF Document
Zac Hicks
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Michael Horton
Julia Duin
David Kinnaman
WHI-208
May 20th, 2012 at 9:19 am
It seems to me that worship has become synonym for singing, and certainly in my church’s many worship teams, much energy is put into musical practice and training to deliver a “great performance” each sunday. I find myself continually growing in resistence to this praise music, and have even contemplated on the question of whether or not I could get away with simply coming in late for church to skip the singing part and get right to the sermon part.
The emphasis on happiness and tendency of the performed music to provoke emotional responses (“experiences”) has more than once broken me, since my experiences in my walk with God never really matched up with the words that were sung (I don’t even know how anyone can sing those words without lying).
Not knowing what worship really is, or rather, thinking that worship is only singing praise songs has proven really deadly for me, since if my experience does not ever match what is sung about (and it looks as though other people’s experiences DO) then something MUST be wrong with me and therefor I am not saved ( = my faulty thinking pattern ).
Going to church, or at least sitting through the first part of the “show” has become increasingly frustrating, especially since I KNOW my feelings and personal situation are not going to match up with the happy-joyness of it all. And so, I am failing God in not giving Him what He deserves; which is my worship ( = song ). I cannot overcome my sadness or tiredness to join in with the singing, which confirms even more that God is not lending me strength, because He is so utterly disappointed in me and my hostile attitude towards the music that He is tapping His feet to.
(Last week I walked out on the service simply because I couldn’t take it anymore and the final song, a song that sounds like it was made to bring you into some kind of trance, was the final straw)
I have thought about what it would be like in other churches in my city, and whether or not I will be able to find there what I think is missing from our “worship”. I dread returning to a kind of church I grew up going to (Dutch Reformed) which had the horrible organ music and seemingly endless and dull singing. I also don’t like the idea of ending up in a church that does supposedly do the worship right, but misses the ball on other important points, like the message or fellowship or teaching.
So I personally wouldn’t want to pack and “leave for Rome”, but I can certainly see why people would.
So what to do? Certainly my church has given attention to the subject of worship, and we’ve studied it a little in the smaller circles, yet when it comes down to it, it always becomes a discussion on the matter of taste and preference, rather than what the Bible particularly says about worship within the church service. “We have chosen to do it this way, and we can’t please everyone and there always be someone who prefers the old hymns over the new ones, or this kind of preaching over that kind of preaching.”
Honestly, I have never heard of this idea that was talked about in this episode about the worship being receiving something from God. Can someone back this up with some Bible texts? I’m very curious about that.
Isn’t it also true that true worship is taking care of the widows and the orphans? Or should I take that as something that is more general and continuous?
What would be some texts that could help me get a clearer picture of what our worship should look like in a church setting (that is, that gathering of people usually done on sunday morning)?
As you can see my understanding of what worship really means and entails is still greatly lacking and I think that if that understanding does not change, I am going to end up pretty depressed and simply stuck.
One thing I did get from this, and already knew but keep forgetting is that I should indeed not simply follow my feelings, but realize that all that God has done in Christ is outside of me, and has nothing to do with my preference or emotions. My anchor needs to be God, oh how I need my anchor!
May 20th, 2012 at 3:41 pm
R. Mulder, a few things in reply, firstly i haven’t listened to the podcast yet, and i am not a WHI rep or anything just a Aussie country minister.
I have struggled with the same things (not quite to the extent you have). Worship is more than singing and should not be in our language be limited to singing. Definitely our lives are to be lived in worship to God.
But back on the issue in Church and songs. The answers i have come to are ones that are not perfect, but seemed wise although i am open for more critique.
I am happy for people to be emotional in song, the Psalms are emotional, and there is emotion no matter what part of our Christian life we are talking about. I think the issue is, getting emotion out of the style of song, rather than the gospel, which ought to be proclaimed in song. Our basis from God for this is the Psalms but also Acts 16:25, Ephesians 5:19, Col 3:16. These are at the moment just proof texts, but what i found helpful was Horton’s words in his book “the Christian Faith” – “The goal of such singing in the public worship was not individualistic, either in terms of mystical contemplation or self-expression, but the enveloping of the community in the gospel.” (p. 88)
Singing of songs (although shouldn’t be just spoken in terms of worship) is for the Christian community, as the lyrics reflect the word of God pointing to the gospel and so are songs of teaching and faith, edification and building up the body of Christ. This will involve emotion as people reflect on God, His character, His work, and ourselves before Him. But our emotion shouldn’t drive the songs, rather the content of the gospel should drive the songs. How do we do this in our church? I think it is through choosing songs that are clear and gospel centred. Also by having the singing leader/service leader explain of the song, that helps the hearer to understand the reason we are singing, it is also a form of teaching.
I hope this helps. And be encouraged that this is a complement to the preaching from the pulpit and never should be a distraction away.
May 20th, 2012 at 6:49 pm
For some, like myself, it’s not the worship experience itself as much as how theology and doctrine gets lived out, particularly where there’s a disconnect between what is said and what is done.
At times, it also can feel more like a social club in which you may be welcome to attend, but try membership and that’s where you hit the stumbling blocks.
May 20th, 2012 at 10:37 pm
Hello, Mr. Mulder. I come from an evangelical background and later dabbled for several years with non-denominational, electric guitar praise services. I once was told by a well-meaning friend that I “maybe wasn’t [spiritually] ready” for that type of worship experience. Now, I have moved to a denomination (URCNA) closer to the “Dutch Reformed” in which you were raised.
The songs played in most confessional Reformed churches are not of a contemporary sound, to say the least. I thought I had stepped into a time machine back to the 1700′s. But, it is probably better that way. Why? The words of those hymns are never dumbed down EVER and every phrase is steeped and saturated in the Word of God, being taken for the most part from the Psalter. When I sing those hymns, my intentional mode of operation is to focus intellectually and spiritually on the profound MEANING of the WORDS taken from Scripture (which always bring my attention back to where it should be in worship, on God and His works), not on a ballad-rockish/pop-rockish melody and beat, not on the hipster worship leader and instrumentalists on the stage, not my secular musical tastes, not my manipulable emotions, and not my self-centered desires. I try very hard to avoid absent-mindedly reading the words and focusing only on the melody and tempo-keeping. God should always be the focus and object of worship. I listen to some emotion-driven, secular music of my generation outside of church with their usual grotesquely dumbed-down lyrics, but church is for God; I check my rock-and-roll critic hat at the doorsteps of the sanctuary or for the duration of the Sabbath. Remember, there are no perfect solutions on this side of heaven, just bad, good, and better trade-offs.
Add to that the rock solid, biblical teaching in confessional Reformed churches (the type of teaching heard in White Horse Inn broadcasts), where God is sovereign and the means of grace are His preached Word and sacraments, and the choice is clear, at least it was for me. May God bless you on your journey.
May 21st, 2012 at 6:03 am
Thank you both, D Presland and Noye Doulos for your responses! I’ve given the subject some more thought and I came to the conclusion that I may be bringing too much personal baggage and expectations to the singing part of the worship, which may be clouding my judgment.
I was very happy to join my current church after my baptism, and the music didn’t bother me that much at first (though I didn’t really sing because I was shy and didn’t know any of the songs yet). We did sort of take this new turn where part of “our” evangelizing plan became sort of luring people to the message using popular (and well-paid) Christian artists (musicians and other). Setting up our new “style” after a horrible church split (which I didn’t see) was done with the help of a rather charismatic and succesful man and several coaches to help really train our growing “worship teams”.
I guess I have an inner rejection of what is going on. The idea that the church is being hijacked to be turned into a ‘succes’ using someone else’s winning formula. Disregadring what we, the actual church, think about it.
Noye, I think I hear you saying that how we stand in worship (the singing part of it) is in a sense a choice we make. You choose to set aside what you think of this person, or that melody, or any other secundary thought or feeling to focus specifically on what you know actually matters: God and His works. So I guess I should be able to overcome any sad- or tiredness I bring in on Sunday mornings (which makes it easy for me to get distracted and annoyed with form and people) by simply making the choice to not look at myself or others, but to God and the contents of the song that should be pointing toward God and Jesus.
Ha! I’ll try and keep this in mind!
That’ll prove to be tricky enough. But I guess I shouldn’t be expecting every song to address my depressions or sad state of the moments either
I wonder if Reformed churches in my country are really the same as the Reformed churches I hear about on this here website. The Reformed church of my childhood still exists, but is in really bad shape at the moment. One thing that seemed to go hand in hand with Reformed churches here is the lack of interaction with brothers and sisters, the stiffness of it all, and the disconnect that Pat was talking about. Hmm, wouldn’t hurt to do some research and check out some other places.
May 21st, 2012 at 3:37 pm
Check out the band “Ascend the hill” -hymns album. A new take on old rock solid “worship” songs. Simply beautiful!
May 21st, 2012 at 5:47 pm
I really can’t understand why evangelical (even some reformed) churches would use songs that come from organizations such as hillsong that teach bad theology. I can’t seem to escape their over-the-top music for the life of me. Really is a downer when I have to literally force myself to sing along with the rest of the congregation on an early Sunday morning. What unbelievable torture! How can churches that claim to be ‘reformed’ use songs that come from a business that is in it for all the wrong reasons. Don’t understand at all.
May 22nd, 2012 at 4:44 am
[...] The White Horse Inn – The Worship Experience [...]
May 22nd, 2012 at 8:58 am
DJ, I just listened to Ascend the Hill hoping against hope that this might finally be the band doing a “new take” on hymns that I could enjoy. Then I heard “How Great Thou Art” sung as “How Great You Are” and promptly gave up. I almost feel petty about it… then again, no I don’t! Anyway, thanks for the heads up about the band, at any rate.
May 22nd, 2012 at 9:33 am
R. Mulder —
“Isn’t it also true that true worship is taking care of the widows and the orphans? Or should I take that as something that is more general and continuous?”
You’re thinking of James 1:27, which says:
Pure and undefiled *religion* before God and the Father is this: to visit orphans and widows in their trouble, and to keep oneself unspotted from the world. [emphasis mine, of course]
So as you can see, this doesn’t really pertain to the worship conversation as such.
May 22nd, 2012 at 12:15 pm
If this is the beginning of a series on worship, I look forward to it.
I’ve spent a good chunk of my life in congregations (PCUSA, CRCNA) in theory governed by a Reformed theology of worship. I can’t recall ever having heard it discussed, until recently. The forms and elements were there, as a tradition, but not necessarily explicitly informed by anything more than that. I’ve spent the last 15 years in a more generic evangelical church, where the rule seems to be “whatever the worship team wants to do, within the bounds of good taste and a vague recollection of how things used to be.” Currently we are in a small (small) PCA plant where things are more well ordered. Worship was a major reason for that jump.
The name Hughes Oliphant Old will probably come up sometime. The last chapter in his Worship Reformed According to Scripture is worth mulling over. Basically, given the history and tradition he’s gone over in the rest of the book, how is this to play out now? What we don’t want is to make what he calls an “archaeological reconstruction” of the practice of a prior age.
May 22nd, 2012 at 12:48 pm
Two things, generally speaking, that drove me out of my Southern Baptist upbringing were: 1. That “purpose driven… or program driven” church growth movement. You literally have no time to take a breath. I have played the piano since I was 6 years old and have been part of this “rock-band let me feel ya Jesus” movement – horrendous! 2. Absolutely terrible theology that either ignored or excused having any theological depth. Rather than actually take the congregation through the text every sermon was what I needed to do to “take back our city for Jesus” or “really show we’re serious about God.” All the while trying to juggle a job and family along with having a life – without guilt because I wasn’t taking part in one of the various programs offered.
We have now joined a small Lutheran LCMS congregation with one more session of catachesis left. Our children are confused as to why we’re taking part in such a “strange service.” The entertainment value of American Evangelicalism took its toll on me. I thank God He brought us out of it. Great program!
May 22nd, 2012 at 12:57 pm
I just finished the podcast and have to admit that it left me somewhat discouraged. It left me with the impression that all worship contexts that include a band are giving way to pop culture via a seeker sensitive approach. If this is in fact the charge being made – and perhaps I’m misunderstanding the guys intentions – I think they’re overreaching.
As a non-denominational church worship leader, I’ll be the first to admit that in such contexts worship is often misunderstood, songs are theologically poor, and emotion is king. However, this is not always the case. Many churches – including my own – seek to engage both the heart and mind during congregational worship. I’ve learned to be extremely picky regarding the music we sing. Many of the songs we use are rearranged hymns. The lyric remains the same though the music is different.
I appreciate the White Horse Inn broadcast and the teaching ministry of Modern Reformation so very much… just thought I’d add my two cents.
May 23rd, 2012 at 3:38 am
[...] Here is a good discussion about the problem with defining worship experience in emotive rather than theology terms. Share this:PrintEmailFacebook Tagged with: emotion, worship Posted in News & Reviews [...]
June 7th, 2012 at 11:08 pm
I guess I’d have to agree with what “Too far?” said. I came to know Christ among people of various denominations, but I’ve been part of a non-denominational church since then (although I was Catholic before becoming a believer). Even so, the people who discipled me and raised me up taught me a theology that I would say is most like Reformed Theology. Still, my experience with worship has always been an overflow, a boiling over, of revelation of what the Lord has done for us and who He is (from His word). Often the words that we sing remind me of the truth and who God is and what He is doing and has been doing. His great mercy on me and His faithfulness day in and day out produce emotion in me at times. Is this wrong? Certainly we must be careful that we don’t express falsehood in our music, but I think the speakers are visiting churches very different from the ones I know. Should we not be overcome by the greatness of the Lord? I have the same response in my reading of the Word; God’s truth therein produces great joy, confidence, hope, etc. In fact, what He has been teaching me in the Word often comes to mind during worship and leads to spontaneous praise. I guess I felt a bit like a weirdo when I listened to this week’s discussion; like they thought I was just jazzing myself up emotionally if I praised God with a guitar. (Who can sustain that sort of fake, jazzed up emotionalism?)
I was also a little confused about what exactly this week’s panel expected worship to entail. In other words, what elements would they say are essential to worship? Any thoughts on where to go for further reading about this?
August 28th, 2012 at 8:16 am
[...] State of the ChurchWHI YouTube The Worship ExperienceWHI-1102 Should we Reform or Abandon American [...]
September 2nd, 2012 at 5:13 pm
[...] a recent podcast done by “The White Horse Inn” ( http://www.whitehorseinn.org/blog/2012/05/20/whi-1102-the-worship-experience/), the subject of Worship comes up, and whether or not the Evangelical Church has become somewhat [...]
September 2nd, 2012 at 9:23 pm
[...] White Horses May 20th podcast called “The Worship Experience” ( http://www.whitehorseinn.org/blog/2012/05/20/whi-1102-the-worship-experience/ ) Is the topic of today’s bloggage. The subject: churches and worship. The quartet of men [...]
September 2nd, 2012 at 9:35 pm
[...] listening to the podcast from White Horse Inn on “The Worship Experience”,(http://www.whitehorseinn.org/blog/2012/05/20/whi-1102-the-worship-experience/) here are some of the thoughts that came to [...]
September 2nd, 2012 at 10:17 pm
[...] This post is a short response to “The Worship Experience,” a podcast by The White Horse Inn Blog. The podcast can be heard here. [...]
September 2nd, 2012 at 11:14 pm
[...] this goes. . . (bear with me, I promise it is all relevant!) The podcast I listened to (found here: http://www.whitehorseinn.org/blog/2012/05/20/whi-1102-the-worship-experience) stated at one point that “true worship is not defined by whether or not I am emotionally [...]
September 3rd, 2012 at 5:20 pm
[...] the link to the podcast mentioned above. http://www.whitehorseinn.org/blog/2012/05/20/whi-1102-the-worship-experience/ Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like [...]
September 3rd, 2012 at 6:50 pm
[...] feel free to listen to their podcast: http://www.whitehorseinn.org/blog/2012/05/20/whi-1102-the-worship-experience/ Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like this. This entry was posted in [...]
September 3rd, 2012 at 8:14 pm
[...] http://www.whitehorseinn.org/blog/2012/05/20/whi-1102-the-worship-experience/ [...]
September 3rd, 2012 at 9:19 pm
[...] to God or do we worship Him in order to receive a response or blessings in return? The podcast http://www.whitehorseinn.org/blog/2012/05/20/whi-1102-the-worship-experience/ touched base on many of these [...]
September 4th, 2012 at 2:02 pm
[...] is the link where you can listen to the podcast referred to in this blog post: http://www.whitehorseinn.org/blog/2012/05/20/whi-1102-the-worship-experience/ Share this:TwitterFacebookLike this:LikeBe the first to like [...]
December 24th, 2012 at 12:35 am
This talk was really disappointing to me, its a 33 minute podcast that went over styles of worship. At least once they mention the importance of using the truth of the scripture to reach people, and near the end there was a reference to people needing proper leaders and teachers so that there was nutrition in the messages they were receiving; yet there was so little scripture used during the podcast that it was like eating white refined paste. Romans 10 was referenced but if you look it up, it use felt stretched from how Paul wrote it.
I challenge any moderator to listen to this podcast again and see if there is any depth to it, more scripture should have been used in a much more precise way which would have given those dialoguing something to really mull over rather than opinions getting confirmed and chewed to death. If I’m going to come here to get teaching, then teach me please.
January 15th, 2013 at 8:50 pm
Jesus died on the cross so we could each have the worship experience we like? You are supposing to design an experience to get the crowds to your house.
Jesus said to them, “I tell you the Truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink my Blood, you have no life in you.” John 6:53
The Catholic Church is the church that maintains the continuity of Truth throughout history. The Church has withstood the good and bad of humanity because the keys to the Kingdom were given to Peter and handed down in succession all the while keeping the Truths for two thousand years.
Evangelical Churches are in disarray as you are describing accurately. I have been in Evangelical Churches for 40 years since 14 years old and entered the Catholic Church happily 2 years ago.
Please contact my email for further discussion! God bless you and your journey into the Catholic Church!. Romans 12, 1 Corinthians 12, Ephesians 4 AND JOHN 17!!!!!!!!!
May 12th, 2013 at 5:27 pm
[...] are seeking out more transcendent worship but maintaining their protestant doctrines". WHI-1102 | The Worship Experience – White Horse Inn Blog I'd take their theory farther and say that people are leaving Evangelicalism altogether for [...]