The Numbers Don’t Add Up
I was recently looking at the (very long and detailed) bio page of a pastor of a large church in the Midwest. As I was reading, this struck me as being interesting:
In the eight years that Dr. ____ has been its pastor, the First _____ Church of _____ has seen amazing growth, with the average weekly attendance more than doubling. This growth caused the need for a new auditorium; so in March of 2005, the First _____ Church moved into a new 7500-seat auditorium and, throughout that same year, saw over 25,000 converts baptized.
Their website also states,
“…we have a baptism time at the end of every Sunday service. Those who have trusted Jesus Christ are baptized by immersion, making it as easy as possible to be baptized immediately after you get saved…. Dozens and dozens of people get baptized every Sunday here at First _____ Church. If you would like to be baptized, make your way to the altar…”
Elsewhere we read, “being baptized automatically enrolls you in our membership” (emphasis added).
This blog post could be about the lack of catechesis given before baptism (the early church had a period of 2-3 years before a convert would be baptized and entered into membership of the local church), but I want to look at the numbers:
1,500-15,000 – Average yearly total of baptisms (I interpreted the “dozens and dozens” statement above to be a minimum of 24 a week–a very conservative number. However, a video says there were 333 baptisms on one particular Sunday, so 300 per week might be a better average which means there could be up to 15,000 baptisms of new converts each year.)
32,500-75,000 – Probable number of new converts/baptisms since 2005
7,500 – Capacity of the auditorium
2 – Worship services every week (one morning and one evening)
Now let’s looks at what doesn’t add up:
15,059 – Weekly average attendance (This is the advertised average for 2009 from the church’s website). In fact, only around 15,000 can fit in the auditorium for the two weekly services.
17,500-60,000 – Minimum number of “members” since 2005 who don’t show up at either of the church services.
I hope you can see the disconnect between baptism/membership and the actual attendance of the means of grace on a weekly basis. I really want to know where all these new baptized members are! This is not how Christ has established his church. God has given the church of Christ the means of grace (the preached Word and the Sacraments) not only for creating faith, but also for nourishing, strengthening, and sustaining faith. God has prepared a feast for us in the wilderness of this passing evil age, but yet many “Christians” don’t think they need the manna, quail, or water that is freely given from heaven. Instead they are content with starving themselves or sadly making their own meals at home. Obviously the “membership class” that these new members get from the time they “walk down the aisle” to the time that they get wet doesn’t include Hebrews 10:25 which characterizes Christians as, “… not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some…”
Today in America, especially, churches need to seriously pick up their responsibility to nurture new converts in the faith and to stress the importance of the gathering of God’s people on the Lord’s Day where they are reminded of the gospel they now believe and told again about this Christ whom they now trust. It breaks my heart to even begin to think where a vast majority of these “members” are in their spiritual walk (it can’t be good). The numbers don’t lie–they can’t all be at this church! I really hope I can be proved wrong and that First _____ Church of _____ is, in fact, a springboard or feeder for many other local churches (they plant, but another waters and nurtures). However, if that is their model or role, then I don’t think they would call these new converts “members” of this particular church immediately after baptism.


November 4th, 2010 at 2:41 pm
Boom. http://www.fbchammond.com/pastor/biography/
November 4th, 2010 at 2:42 pm
http://www.fbchammond.com/pastor/biography/
November 4th, 2010 at 2:49 pm
Well… in the world of Google, I guess leaving out parts of a church’s name doesn’t really stop much!
November 4th, 2010 at 2:55 pm
A recent article at Associated Baptist Press stated:
By today’s standards, “in a culture that no longer sits around on Sundays,” Bullard said, regular attendance is between 39 and 42 Sundays a year.
http://www.abpnews.com/content/view/5827/53/
If you had 5,000 “members” who were “regular attenders” who came 3/4 of the time, there would be 3,750 of them each Sunday.
If you had another 15,000 “members” who came 1/2 of the time, there would be 7,500 of them each Sunday.
If you had another 15,000 “members” who came 1/4 of the time, there would be 3,750 of them each Sunday.
That would account for 15,000 people each week, but you’d end up with 35,000 different people who were “members” that attended the church each month.
Unfortunately, I’ve seen some evidence of churches that follow that type of pattern.
November 4th, 2010 at 4:20 pm
I certainly agree that lack of discipleship and a “disconnect between baptism/membership” are certainly problems yet I think that there are two other glaring issues that have given rise to church situations like the one above, namely superficial evangelism and the sinner’s prayer/altar call methodologies.
The majority of those baptized at the above church are likely unconverted, yet are happy to respond to an invitation to ask Jesus to help them improve their lives or give them greater happiness. Robust Biblical evangelism that calls people to repent, and submit to Christ as Lord and Savior will certainly reduce the number of people walking the aisle.
But the aisle itself is also a problem. People profess faith for a myriad of reasons, and the potential to mistake mere guilt for actual God-wrought sorrow for sin is high. But if people merely feel bad about themselves, without accompanying repentance, it is easy to get them to say the sinner’s prayer. And many churches regard this formalized prayer as a sure indication of conversion, and thus the big numbers.
If anyone is interested in reading more on the sinner’s prayer, I have written an article here: http://www.dahlfred.com/en/blogs/gleanings-from-the-field/294-the-sinners-prayer-never-converted-anyone
November 4th, 2010 at 5:11 pm
Dozens and dozens are baptized each week? Never mind that, what about the 70 or so that were supposedly baptized *each day* in 2005?
These people are lying. Wow.
November 4th, 2010 at 6:33 pm
I find this quote interesting:
“the early church had a period of 2-3 years before a convert would be baptized and entered into membership of the local church”
I’ve never made the effort to research this before. Where did you learn this, or can you provide a soutce? Not as proof.. I just think it’s interesting because our church goes anywhere from a weekend seminar format to a 6-week class totalling only about 9 hours.
November 5th, 2010 at 5:38 am
What a disconnect! I too am interested to learn the source of 2-3 years before baptism was administered. However, I am appalled at the lack of effort to disciple. As you well know we were told to make disciples. Numbers and pride, pride and numbers, didn’t numbers cause David to sin?
November 5th, 2010 at 5:43 am
Dan -
How dare you ask for a citation and make me prove my point!!
Here is a source: Clinton E. Arnold, “Early Church Catechesis and New Christians’ Classes in Contemporary Evangelicalism,” Journal of the Evangelical Theological Society 47/1 (March 2004): 39-54. And you are in luck–it is available on-line here:
http://www.etsjets.org/files/JETS-PDFs/47/47-1/47-1-pp039-054_JETS.pdf
A quote, “When we begin to examine the sources of the early Christian catechumenate, we discover that it often took place over a three-year span.”
Enjoy!
Mark
November 5th, 2010 at 8:46 am
Here’s another funny irony…when I entered the string of text from the baptism block (to try to find the church), I got TWO hits with identical wording. One is absolutely copied from the other.
http://www.cornerstn.org/index_child.php?num=2
http://www.fbchammond.com/about/what-to-expect/
Who plagiarized whom?
November 5th, 2010 at 9:13 am
Doc – That is amazing!!! It is literally a cut-and-paste from FBC Hammond’s site (I have no doubt which came first). Obviously Cornerstone is trying to “cut-and-paste” another “successful” church all the way down to the Wednesday night studies and the quality of the child care!!
November 5th, 2010 at 10:03 am
Mark,
Thank you very much for posting your source, that’s great!
Granted, Paul was called as an apostle, but might Gal 1:15-18 have something to do with the three-year catechism?
I would think that a longer-term view of catechism and membership would reduce the pressure-cooker mentality to “become a member”, and would allow ample time for belivers to understand sound Christian doctrine in depth, and carefully considering it, before committing oneself to membership.
December 2nd, 2010 at 12:58 pm
FBC Hammond’s church is basiclly on a campus. There is the main auditorium building (actual church building) and about 5-8 other large buildings for sunday school and junior church on or around Sibley Street (church adress). Some of the church buses of FBC Hammond run all day on Sunday because they have junior church and youth group all afternoon for the most part (between morning service and evening service.) I do believe FBC Hammond has 15,000 in attendeance throughout ALL OF THEIR MINISTRIES on a Sunday. AND they have the Spanish church in the old church building next door (Jack Hyles Memorial Auditorium (building church grew out of)) membership- 7,000 …. so yes, 15,000+ sounds right =)
December 2nd, 2010 at 1:03 pm
Here is a map of the campus…. 15,000 is very possible, especially with ministries going on all day =)
http://fbchammond.com/services/map/
December 6th, 2010 at 8:51 am
Mark, I’m the \Dan\ from above, not \Daniel\.
I finally downloaded the reference you included in your earlier response to me on 11/5 at 05:43, and read it in its entirety last night. That’s a very good paper and I appreciate that you shared it! I honestly had not thought about the early church’s approach to training and approving new members. It’s eye-opening and convicting in regard to both the doctrinal and ethical aspects.
Thanks again!
January 6th, 2011 at 6:26 pm
I agree that we are too quick to make converts but not willing to do the work it takes to make true disciples that follow Jesus.
February 21st, 2011 at 8:46 pm
So how about the earliest church? How many years did they take in Acts 2:41 before baptizing the 3000? I agree that the “pray this prayer” and a quick baptism is probably not a real conversion, but if God is the one calling as apposed to a man, then one should be baptized as soon as one has accepted the gospel. Also Acts 8:26-39
April 14th, 2011 at 4:03 pm
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